Lara Croft: The Debate

    That's exactly it. Why fixing something that isn't broken?
    BTW, Breast-size aside, as Cat stated so spot-on, what is the definition of female friendly gaming ?
    And is there such a thing as f-f. gaming ?
    I, just like Red Hell, wish they would leave her the way she is. I'd hate to see Lara morph into something totally unrecognizable. :ouch:

    Like they say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."


    I did some research on "female friendly gaming" and not much light was shed on this subject. Hell, I barely found anything usable. I mean, there isn't really anything out there that defines "female friendly" gaming. Here's what I came across.


    So, basically (for those who do not wish to read the articles), what I learned from those four links was stuff I pretty much already knew. Lara is having a makeover to make her look more female friendly. No one knows what'll happen to her exactly, but judging from what I've read, it's a pretty safe bet that they'll put her in less revealing clothing and reduce her breast size, therefore making the game "suitable for both genders". *looks around completely taken aback* What? Now, either I don't know what suitable means, or some soccer moms are just straight out nitpicking. I know people were complaining about Lara's appearance in the past, but when was her figure unsuitable for women, scratch that, for anyone? And if it was, why do they choose to do something about it now? I'd like to give Toby Gard a good smack in the face, the bellend, for making Lara's breasts outrageously large in the first place.


    First of all, before I get into a heated discussion, let me first quote something from Voodoo Extreme; "Eidos is considering revising the look and play of her Tomb Raider adventures, which may see efforts to make her more female-friendly, in an attempt to revive sales of games starring the pneumatic archaeologist."


    Excuse me while I laugh. Yes, sales plummeted because Lara's clothing was revealing and her breasts are large, [Blocked Image: http://www.mi6forums.co.uk/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif] . If anything, that should increase sales, should it not? Or do we need to redirect ourselves to the first post of this thread? Are [stereotypically] most men attracted to Lara Croft for sexual purposes? Yes. So how do you blame that ludicrous fact for the poor sales of the game? Eidos, let me break it down for you. Tomb Raider Underworld did poorly, yes, but it wasn't Lara's fault. It wasn't entirely your fault. Yes, I said entirely, because it was somewhat your fault. Yes, I'll explain why, can I have a minute please? Anyway, it sold poorly because of the games in competition. Now, I'm not one who enjoys repeating myself - as a matter of fact, I go quite beserk when asked to, but we won't get into that right about now. I'll say it for the thirtieth time - you cannot release a game like Tomb Raider while there are other games in existance such as Gears of War, Grand Theft Auto, Call of Duty, etc. and expect it to sell well. That's like releasing an updated version of the Nintendo 64 right now. It will not sell. Well, it might for the gamers who are looking for it, but it won't match up to that of the Xbox 360, PS3, and Nintendo Wii.


    Now, onto another reason why it was Eido's fault - starting from scratch. Now, if you ask me, that was the dumbest thing since Angel of Darkness, and I didn't think the game was all that bad. Discarding Legend's engine and building a new one was the dumbest move I've ever seen a video game company make. Honestly. You had such brilliance with Legend, why would you want to leave that for something else that you had no idea result in failure or success? What I would have done, and hell, this would have made Underworld the best Tomb Raider game to date, would have involved keeping Legend's engine and building up from there. Starting with Lara's moves - all the moves she gained in Underworld I would have kept. I would have basically taken Legend, replaced the outfits, the weapons, the characters, the graphics, the storyline, the gadgets, and the bonus content, and put it all together. I would have kept the Replay Levels menu, kept the View Cutscenes menu, and allowed the player to choose any outfit from the entire game for Lara to wear in any level. Because the Winter Heavy outfit in the Mediterranean Sea like you showed in the launch trailer is completely misleading. If you ask me, that would have made Underworld bloody damn brilliant. Am I lying? I think not. So yeah, Eidos, you were highly involved in Underworld's demise, so own up to it. Oh, and while I'm at it, good luck finding employees better than the ones you fired. I doubt you'll have an easy time.


    Anyway, like I said, I just want to see what they plan on doing to Lara. As research dictates, to meet the "female friendly requirements", I'm pretty sure all they have to do is decrease her breast size and give her less revealing clothes. But honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with Lara other than the breast size, but that honestly doesn't bother me anymore because I'm not playing the games to gawk at her. As a matter of fact, I think Lara should stay the way she is. It's who she is. But I'm straddling the fence here, shifting positions every so often, so I can't really talk. I'm a neutral party, really.


    Still, Eidos needs a good smack in the face.

    May I just say.............. God save the Queen !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Amen!!!!!!!!!!!! :awe
    Now, Cat , that was most brilliantly put into words. You really should send this article ( I call it an article because it's actually better written then what I've read in some PC mags ) straight to Eidos. Do they ( Eidos ) actually read the forums on tombraider related sites ? I wonder. :think:
    Maybe they should it ( the whole female friendly makeover thing ) put up to vote. Let us have a say in it. Since we are the ones they need. ( We buy and play it after all ) :thumbs: I think that would only be fair, right ? :-)

    Thanks, questy I appreciate that. Eidos reads over at Tomb Raider Forums but I really think they should have a go over here as well. I'll probably write up a better one, or just submit this to them straight away.

    You're welcome ! :thumbsup
    How can you possibly write a better one ? :awe
    I'd say just send the letter and see what they have to say. If they actually do reply.( I wrote to them once asking why they had to upgrade the engine but sadly never got an answer ) If not, shame on them. :hit Might as well go public and write to a gamers mag. Yeah, scare the crap out of 'em :shock: .

    Actually, I heard that the only reason they made her a sexual idol was after the movie. Remeber the last part of the movie when she runs, and she's not wearing a bra. It kinda sparked the conflict. :comp

    In reply to BethRaider - yes, Angie does have one.


    It's a bit late to join into this, I realise that, but it's a good point made. I also realise that there's probably going to be a lot of what I say that's already been said, but still.


    I was watching some kids TV program once, I think it was Captain Scarlet. Not the puppet one from years ago but the new computer animated one they show every so often. My dad walked in, sat down, watched it for a bit until a female character came on [I forget the name but she's blonde], to which he stated:


    "You can tell that the animators on this are all men."


    "...How?"


    "Because she's blonde, got massive boobs, and a pert arse."


    [Pert, is that the word/spelling I'm thinking of? Nice, was basically what he meant]


    Honestly! And it's a KIDS program!


    It sucks that it happens anywhere but it especially sucks that it happens and has happened in Tomb Raider. As a girl I see a heroine in Lara, and on many occasions I have wanted to be like her just because of how clever she is, what skills she has, and her basic attitude overall. But when there's so many people out there just looking at her chest it just p*sses me off, frankly.

    (Off-Topic:) I don't know if tombraidergirl has told the story already, but:

    BethRaider16 wrote:

    Isn't there a shower scene?

    That reminds me of the time when we've first seen the movie: We were on holidays in Denmark and had to drive for 50km to find a cinema. When we finally got there, there were this couple of annoying guys sitting behind us. Then the shower scene with Angelina completely naked came up and these guys where like "whoo-hooo!!" and making suggestive sounds. A few scenes later Daniel takes his shower and before you could see, who was showering there, these guys were already shouting again! When they finally realized they were whoo-hoo-ing at Daniel Craig, they went very silent very abruptly and we and the rest of the cinema were laughing and rotf... ;-)

    May I add a completely alternative view to what may occur to most? The musing was induced by a comment that RedHell made:


    RedHell wrote:


    I'd let her stay the way she is now, and I'm stating that as a female [hehe]


    You've probably all seen my argument on the previous page on being relatively undecided as to whether Lara's physique is positive or negative, so bear that in mind.


    Anyhow; Why not just keep her as she is? Perhaps by doing so, it may give many women a reason to get back into the gym and to loose some weight, what with the waistlines of the western population spiralling out of control. So it may not be the right reason to loose weight, but it may help and it is not as if it isn't seen elsewhere. To justify my point, how many makeover programs do you see nowadays where women are asking for health / cosmetic help or help in regards to the wardrobe where the motivations of women are to get men back into bed with them, per sei? To draw male attention away from the unrealistic back into reality.


    Although in saying that, that argument could be applied to the size zero models or the models you seen in magazines. The majority of women when asked about that, would probably admit to raiding the fridge in a fit of comfort eating and so doing the opposite to the desired effect. Or it may be down to the individual. Some are angered and therefore motivated to get back into shape when they see the skeletons that Designers call women but others, I suppose suffer from further confidence loss.


    But after saying that, what about the hyped phrase "Personality is more important than appearance"? ...'cause Lara sure as hell has one powerful personality yet that is completely forgotten about most of the time.


    ...I'm sick of trying to put the world to right; there are too many relatives, it makes my head spin [hehe]

    I completely agree with you, Chloe.

    BethRaider16 wrote:

    Isn't there a shower scene? I know there's a shower scene of Daniel Craig ( :love: ) but doesn't Angie have one too?

    Yes, but Renesmee said "ending". Neither movie has an ending with Lara running braless.

    Catracoth wrote:

    Yes, but Renesmee said "ending". Neither movie has an ending with Lara running braless.


    I understand what is meant, though. Angelina was forced to use some form of temporal breast enhancement for the first film, therefore it can be forgiven for thinking she was braless as it achieves a similar effect.


    In fact, she was criticised for refusing to wear the padding in the second film. Quite pathetic.